Our Hangout

I don't know where we got the idea that marriage requires a piece of paper from the government. It makes sense in certain contexts, like ours, but that may change in the future. I'd be okay with that!

I think as far as Liberals go Paul Martin is kind of right wing, or so it seems with certain issues.

I can see down the road a gov't saying that marriages presided over in churches that do not allow same sex unions are not valid. I guess in that case the couple would have to go down to city hall to get the gov't licence.

Quite sure that happens in Holland already and has for years.

Here's another interesting scenario that is beginning to take place and will become a huge issue down the road I think.

You have Christian organizations that perform a service for the public. They are funded by tax dollars. A condition of employment is that you sign a statement of faith which is Biblically based. There are checks in place to confirm your acknowledgement that you are a Christian. (of course that's never fool-proof is it, not in the here-and-now)

Human rights complaints are being initiated accusing the organization of being biased against gays and lesbians.

Knowing how that whole issue is being viewed by the increasingly secular world in which we live, can you see how future Human rights Commission judgements will impact the whole area of public funding for Christian based organizations?

Interested in your thoughts on that.

Some further thoughts on this sparked by your comments George.

What will happen if, indeed, we continue to travel down this road and some of this stuff begins to happen and take hold? I think there will once again be a much greater separation between church and government as I suggested in my original post.

What will that mean specifically? I can't think of everything, but I think that will mean things like no tax receipts for gifts given to church organizations. As well as a loss of funding and even co-operation as we've seen in the past between church, Christian-based organizations, and the government.

Having said that, I'm not sure that's the worst thing that could happen for the cause of Christianity. Sometimes I feel like our dependence on the government and what we expect from the government, has kept us from fulfilling our responsibilities as Christians.

Like I mentioned originally, I don't think the sky is falling. But I do think, as someone as said in past years, "the times are a'changing."

When Jesus told his disciples that they would be witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the ends of the earth, it took persecution to get them going to the ends of the earth.

I think sometimes Christians talk too easily about desiring persecution, or that being the answer to everything, I'm not suggesting that here. But I do think God will do what is necessary to wake up the church in the west. So, maybe we should see these times and these things no so much as a sign of our culture, but even more so, God trying to get the Church's, our, attention.

Just some thoughts.

I think you are right on Ed. I believe these things will begin to happen in the near future.

They already are happening. These will become media events you will see. When it happens I believe we will see who will really stand for Christ.

You will see the real Christ followers for who they really are and you will see the lukewarm Christians for who they really are.

What a time to be solid in our commitment to Christ.

Some Christians might say that in order to keep things going and to keep the funds coming we will compromise and say its ok for these things to occurr, ie: allowing gays and lesbians to be hired withing Christian organizations.

I wonder if anyone reading your blog would feel that way?

Here's the thing though, what do you do? The gov't tells you as an organization that you will no longer be funded with tax dollars if you do not change your statement of faith and your hiring practices, its perceived as biased. What do you do?

Ultimately we have to draw the line somewhere, that's where it might begin to cost us in a whole new way.

My first point, even before we get there, is that we've become too dependant on the government. Ie, what if the government said, no more receipts on your giving. Would Christians tithe less? Or would they become more aware of need that needs to be taken care of, once the govt. pulls back it's funding?

These are some things to wrestle through. I think the answers are obvious, I'm not sure everyone else does though.

I wonder why no-one else has left their opinion on this issue. Could it be people are just a little to uncomfortable dealing with it? Don't want to be perceived as homophobic? Little too concerned of what people might think of their view?