Our Hangout

Wow about says it all! Though I can't help but comment that you have it easy not having to get in the tank with them any more '-)

Eh, I'll be getting with them in the lake this summer...water isn't that warm there :) Lots of fun!

normally I keep my nose out of things, but my joke was taken and twisted. What I've learned over the past couple of years is that it is not the rules that matter, but our relationship with HIM and that is what the baptism formalized.

Wow, it's like if your hearts right then you can ignore God's practices. But what if following his practices are heart-felt expressions of submission. You can't make it an either or thing. Ignorance is one thing, but I read the word baptism itself means 'to immerse' - how clear can that be when Jesus makes it a command to baptize. And in Romans 6 first part Paul's theology only makes sense if his illustration of baptism in by total immersion.

I'm not saying God freaks out if someone gets baptized with the wrong method out of ignorance or necessity, but the method is tied to the theology. You can't give culturally relative things like holy kissin as examples to match explicit teaching for an ordinance. Baptism by immersion is tied to total immersion and identification with Christ. Why tamper with it?

"Baptism by immersion is tied in to total immersion and identification with Christ."

So...that means that unless someone is totally immersed they can't be totally identified with Christ. So baptism is more than a symbol. It actual is effectual in accomplishing the believer's identification with Christ...you're treading on dangerous water here my friend. I know that's probably not what you believe...however...that's what your theology expresses, at least how you're explaining it!

Romans...You should know that the Bible isn't always referring to "water baptism" when it uses the word baptism. The point of Paul's theology here is about what Christ has accomplished for us in his sacrifice...not in what water baptism accomplishes or even symbolizes. Actually, the Bible's use of the word "baptizo" is more often used to deal with the change in the believer as a result of being in Christ...than with how much water was used to baptize.

I know this changes nothing...and so, I'd really rather not get into this discussion with you. And much less if you're unwilling to put your name behind your positions. You believe this way and your position is theologically based. I believe and my position is theologically based. Of course you don't believe that the last statement is true or possible...so we're at an impass. Your desire to express yourself seems at best to correct me or at worst to just show that I'm wrong.

So because we're at a theological impass it seems pretty useless to discuss this too much further. (unless what we're looking for is to really discuss because we believe that we can learn something from one another and grow from the experience. I didn't sense that from your previous post. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

My apology then...I answered your post before you had a chance to post your name.

But still, we seem to be at an impass. We could discuss this till we're blue in the face. I know you believe what you believe and that it's theological for you. I believe what I believe and it's theological for me. One of us is wrong, or maybe we're both wrong...a possibility as well.

So, let's leave it here. I've believed as you do. For many years, I taught the position you're speaking of, as the only way. Until very recently...I'd only ever baptized by immersion.

My positions has changed over the years because of what I believe the Bible teaches. Not because of ignorance, necessity or trying to be culturally relevant.

So, I'm not sure this discussion will make too much of a difference..that's just my opinion...don't hesitate to comment...but Paul talks about useless arguments and in these situations these arguments can turn into that.

PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!
I praise God that Lucas has come to know Him & wanted to be reconized as a follower of Christ!!!!! WOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! You must have been so proud & honoured to do that!

I was very honoured to play that part. It was a special moment for him and for God. But it was a special moment for us as well. I have a very strong connection with Lucas. We're very alike, in many ways. But he's so much farther ahead than I was at his age in terms of his journey with God, and I thank God for that. I know there's much journey ahead, but I pray God uses him in ways that keep drawing him closer. It's neat to be part of that journey so far.