Our Hangout

Answers along the way

After my last post on an afternoon with one of our youth, three people (one offline) have asked me to post my answers to the questions.

I was hesitant to do that, still am, we talked for three hours and those four questions were just jumping points for many other questions. I'm also not sure I want to put myself out there on this type of forum where it's not always easy to dialogue through issues. So, I proceed with uncertainty. Just being honest.
I will sum up what I feel is the heart of the issue in each question, rather than trying to sum up three hours of conversation.

1. What is the difference between the different religions. Why should I give my life to Christianity? Why not Islam? Why not Budhism?

It boils down to grace! Every other religion calls you to get yourself out of the mess your in by your own work. Often the religious gods, leaders serve as examples of the perfection you're aiming for but don't offer much in terms of helping you get out of the mess you're in.

Christianity is about a relationship with a God who loved his creation so much that he took it upon himself to do everything needed for us to have right standing and be in relationship with him. Our efforts are no longer to get out of the hole on our own, he's done that...it's about growing in relationship. Unfortunately, sometimes, Christianity is taught in a way that doesn't look much like grace and looks more like works. It's Christ alone plus daily devotions, plus this, plus that. (you can see where this went).

Furthermore...We have to go from what we know to what we don't know. Therefore we must start with Jesus Christ. What do we know about him? What can we discover about him? What did he say about himself? What do you do with his claim to be God? What did his life show? What did he teach? What about prophecy? What about the resurrection? And ultimately, his call to discipleship. These are the things to decide on. It's not about deciding on religions, it's about deciding on Jesus. Start there and move towards the unknowns.

Lastly, in terms of evidence compare religions according to their history...this means doing your homework. Bible, manuscripts etc, etc.

When you had all these things together you have pretty good case...but in the end...it's still all about faith. You can't have a 100% prove to everyone case. And that's the way God would rather have it. God wants your heart as well as your mind.

2. What is the relationship between science and relgion? Are they opposed to one another? Does science really have an agenda against Christianity?

I think much confusion has existed over this. I don't believe science has an agenda vs. Christianity...no more than Dora does (sorry, had to get that in - not in the original conversation) Some scientists might, but so do some Christians have an agenda against science. True Science observes and tries to deduce the most likely scenarios from it's observations. Christianity is about a relationship with God. The Bible is a book that shares the story of God's pursuit of his creation and helps us to discover that relationship for ourselves. It lets us know God's character and the character that he longs for us and how meaning, and fulfillment are found. It points us to Christ and calls us to life in him and through him. Why and what we were created for! (you can see how the converstation went on)

However, back to the issue of the question. The Bible is not intended to be, primarily or even secondarily a science book (although it occasionally makes some scientific observations. Very occasionally.) Likewise, science is not meant to be religion because it's meant to observe and speak to it's observation. (Okay, I know that's simplistic)

Where have we gone astray? When unqualified Christians try to use the Bible as a science text book and present themselves as scientists we miss the point. We should learn lessons from times like those when everyone thought the earth was flat. When science observed it was not, many Christians used religion and the Bible to fight this crazy notion of science, because it threatened the systems they had developed according a wrong notion of how the universe and God functioned.

The point...I know scientists who believe the earth is 10000 years old and those who believe it's 4 billion years old. And I'm convinced that both are true believers. Somebody's wrong or maybe both are wrong...but when we start to just throw out everything science is observing because it doesn't fit our systems we're not just in danger of ignorance...we run the danger of making people feel that if they disagree with us on secondary issues they're not in the kingdom. Ie. If Christianity hinges on a six day 24hr creation, then many people can't in conscience agree because the evidence is too strong for them... The point, Christianity doesn't hinge on that. Again it hinges on a relationship with Christ. Everything else is secondary. In heaven you'll find people who believe the Universe is 10000 years old and those who believe it's 4 billions years old. People who believe creation happened in six, twenty four hour days and those who believe the big bang is God's doing. You'll also find people who are pre-millenial, post-millenial and no-millenial (I know it's a-). Those who believe the flood was local, and those who believe it was worldwide. Those who believe women should shut up in church and those who believe it's time for emancipation.

The point, you won't get to heaven because you were right on all the issues or be excluded because you're wrong on some...because all of us are right on some stuff and wrong on some stuff (we all agree with that except can't think of anything we're possibly wrong in)...but you'll be there not just heaven, but the Kingdom (here and now) for one reason and one reason alone...your relationship with Jesus Christ. Were you living your live training to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and loving others as Jesus loved you. You were? Then you can be wrong on everything else. (some might disagree - that's ok, you're wrong - just kidding, sort of)

3. What keeps you (me) on a steady road with Jesus?

Trying constantly to be surrendered to and in pursuit of loving God first and loving others as Jesus loved me. When I fail ask forgiveness and try again. Constantly look for things that will help me train to be able to do this better.

3b) What about Spiritual Disciplines?

There's only value to any discipline in as long as it helps you to do the above two things. As long as it leads to developing the character God wants to produce in you, as long as it's opening up the door for the Spirit to move in such a way that you're responsive and he has the room to bear his fruit in you. If you're heart is truly for this and a spiritual discipline doesn't help in this process...get rid of it! Try something else...anything can be a spiritual discipline if it truly helps this process to happen in your life.

Piano players don't practice scales so they can be good at playing scales. Don't read your Bible for the sake of reading your Bible. I know Christians who pray more than I'll ever pray and who read and fast and do stuff I can't even get my mind around, all in service of Christ...and yet when it comes to loving people...don't think twice about walking all over someone else. It would be more profitable for them to focus on what will help them to love than spend all their time keeping doing certain disciplines that are obviously not producing the fruit their meant to.

Just some of the tangents we went down.

4. What about the theory that religion exists to help us deal with the fear of the afterlife?

By this time this was no longer an issue for the person in question. Maybe if he'd asked it to begin with.

Again, I feel the issue here as everywhere else boils down to, what do you do with Jesus? Was he real? Prophecy that his life just fit so well into? Teaching? Claim to be God? Death? Ressurection, really? Is so, wow! Call to discipleship?

For me it's all about these things, which makes it pretty interesting...I don't get rattled when anyone questions anything else. Probably because I've questioned it all (and trust me I've questioned it all - creation, flood, bible, end-times, to name just a few) before, and I still have and know I will have many questions to come. But that's cool, because the centre is solid.

Well, that's just some of the roads we journeyed on, there were many more, many I'm sure I don't remember.

My advice to him in the end...Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love others as Jesus loved you!

Posted by ed | TrackBack